Cleinias:  You mean to say, I suppose, that the best government is produced from a tyranny, and originates in a good lawgiver and an orderly tyrant, and that the change from such a tyranny into a perfect form of government takes place most easily; less easily when from an oligarchy; and, in the third degree, from a democracy:  is not that your meaning?

Athenian:  Not so; I mean rather to say that the change is best made out of a tyranny; and secondly, out of a monarchy; and thirdly, out of some sort of democracy:  fourth, in the capacity for improvement, comes oligarchy, which has the greatest difficulty in admitting of such a change, because the government is in the hands of a number of potentates.  I am supposing that the legislator is by nature of the true sort, and that his strength is united with that of the chief men of the state; and when the ruling element is numerically small, and at the same time very strong, as in a tyranny, there the change is likely to be easiest and most rapid.

Cleinias:  How?  I do not understand.

Athenian:  And yet I have repeated what I am saying a good many times; but
I suppose that you have never seen a city which is under a tyranny?

Cleinias:  No, and I cannot say that I have any great desire to see one.

Athenian:  And yet, where there is a tyranny, you might certainly see that of which I am now speaking.

Cleinias:  What do you mean?

Athenian:  I mean that you might see how, without trouble and in no very long period of time, the tyrant, if he wishes, can change the manners of a state:  he has only to go in the direction of virtue or of vice, whichever he prefers, he himself indicating by his example the lines of conduct, praising and rewarding some actions and reproving others, and degrading those who disobey.

Cleinias:  But how can we imagine that the citizens in general will at once follow the example set to them; and how can he have this power both of persuading and of compelling them?

Athenian:  Let no one, my friends, persuade us that there is any quicker and easier way in which states change their laws than when the rulers lead:  such changes never have, nor ever will, come to pass in any other way.  The real impossibility or difficulty is of another sort, and is rarely surmounted in the course of ages; but when once it is surmounted, ten thousand or rather all blessings follow.

Cleinias:  Of what are you speaking?

Athenian:  The difficulty is to find the divine love of temperate and just institutions existing in any powerful forms of government, whether in a monarchy or oligarchy of wealth or of birth.  You might as well hope to reproduce the character of Nestor, who is said to have excelled all men in the power of speech, and yet more in his temperance.  This, however, according to the tradition, was in the times