in general into the wildest pleasure and licence, and every other folly, the law has clean driven out; and neither in the country nor in towns which are under the control of Sparta, will you find revelries and the many incitements of every kind of pleasure which accompany them; and any one who meets a drunken and disorderly person, will immediately have him most severely punished, and will not let him off on any pretence, not even at the time of a Dionysiac festival; although I have remarked that this may happen at your performances ’on the cart,’ as they are called; and among our Tarentine colonists I have seen the whole city drunk at a Dionysiac festival; but nothing of the sort happens among us.

Athenian:  O Lacedaemonian Stranger, these festivities are praiseworthy where there is a spirit of endurance, but are very senseless when they are under no regulations.  In order to retaliate, an Athenian has only to point out the licence which exists among your women.  To all such accusations, whether they are brought against the Tarentines, or us, or you, there is one answer which exonerates the practice in question from impropriety.  When a stranger expresses wonder at the singularity of what he sees, any inhabitant will naturally answer him:—­Wonder not, O stranger; this is our custom, and you may very likely have some other custom about the same things.  Now we are speaking, my friends, not about men in general, but about the merits and defects of the lawgivers themselves.  Let us then discourse a little more at length about intoxication, which is a very important subject, and will seriously task the discrimination of the legislator.  I am not speaking of drinking, or not drinking, wine at all, but of intoxication.  Are we to follow the custom of the Scythians, and Persians, and Carthaginians, and Celts, and Iberians, and Thracians, who are all warlike nations, or that of your countrymen, for they, as you say, altogether abstain?  But the Scythians and Thracians, both men and women, drink unmixed wine, which they pour on their garments, and this they think a happy and glorious institution.  The Persians, again, are much given to other practices of luxury which you reject, but they have more moderation in them than the Thracians and Scythians.

Megillus:  O best of men, we have only to take arms into our hands, and we send all these nations flying before us.

Athenian:  Nay, my good friend, do not say that; there have been, as there always will be, flights and pursuits of which no account can be given, and therefore we cannot say that victory or defeat in battle affords more than a doubtful proof of the goodness or badness of institutions.  For when the greater states conquer and enslave the lesser, as the Syracusans have done the Locrians, who appear to be the best-governed people in their part of the world, or as the Athenians have done the Ceans (and there are ten thousand other instances of the same sort of thing), all this is not to the point; let us endeavour rather to form a conclusion about each institution in itself and say nothing, at present, of victories and defeats.  Let us only say that such and such a custom is honourable, and another not.  And first permit me to tell you how good and bad are to be estimated in reference to these very matters.