“Yes.  I believe the moral discipline of a prison can never be complete while they are allowed to sleep together in one room.  If I may be allowed to state it, I should prefer a prison where women were allowed to work together in companies, under proper superintendence; to have their meals together, and their recreation also; but I would always have them separated in the night.  I believe it would conduce to the health both of body and mind.  Their being in companies during the day, tends, under proper regulations, to the advancement of principle and industry, for it affords a stimulus.  I should think solitary confinement proper only in atrocious cases.  I would divide every woman for a few weeks, until I knew what they were, but I would afterwards regulate them as I have before mentioned.”

“Has gaming entirely ceased?”

“It has of late:  they have once been found gaming since we had care of the prison, but I called the women up when I found that some of them had been playing at cards, and represented to them how much I objected to it, and how evil I thought its consequence was, especially to them; at the same time I stated that if there were cards in the prison, I should consider it a proof of their regard if they would have the candor and the kindness to bring me their packs.  I did not expect they would do it, for they would feel they had betrayed themselves by it; however, I was sitting with the matron, and heard a gentle tap at the door, and in came a trembling woman to tell me she had brought her pack of cards, that she was not aware how wrong it was, and hoped I would do what I liked with them.  In a few minutes another came up, and in this way I had five packs of cards burnt.  I assured them that so far from its being remembered against them, I should remember them in another way.  I brought them a present of clothing for what they had done, and one of them, in a striking manner, said she hoped I would excuse her being so forward, but, if she might say it, she felt exceedingly disappointed; she little thought of having clothing given her, but she had hoped I would give her a Bible, that she might read the Scriptures.  This had been one of the worst girls, and she had behaved so very badly upon her trial that it was almost shameful.  She conducted herself afterwards in so amiable a manner, that her conduct was almost without a flaw.  She is now in the Penitentiary, and, I hope, will become a valuable member of society.”

“You have stated three things which to your mind are essential to the reformation of a prison:  first, religious instruction; secondly, classification; thirdly, employment.  Do you think that any reformation can be accomplished without employment?”

“I should believe it impossible; we may instruct as we will, but if we allow them their time, and they have nothing to do, they must naturally return to their evil practices.”

“How many removals of female prisoners have you had in the last year, in Newgate; how many gone to Botany Bay?”