The PRESIDENT agreed that these people were not obliged by law to naturalize, but if they wanted burgher rights they should do so, when they would get the franchise for the Second Raad; and upon their being naturalized let them come nicely to the Raad and the Raad would have something to go to the country with, and they would receive fair treatment; but, if they refused naturalization and rejected the Transvaal laws, could they expect the franchise?  No.  Let Mr. Jeppe go back and give his people good advice, and if they were obedient to the law and became naturalized they would not regret it; but he could not expect his people to be made full burghers if they were disobedient and refused naturalization.  Let them do as he advised, and he (the President) would stand by them and support them.

Mr. JEPPE said:  His Honour has again asked me to advise the people of Johannesburg what to do regarding the extension of the franchise.  He says they must first naturalize and then come again.  Then he holds out hopes that their wishes will be met.  Why then does he not support Mr. Meyer’s proposal, which affects naturalized people only?  What is it I am to advise the people of Johannesburg?  I have had many suggestions from different members.  You, Mr. Chairman, seem to support the hundred men from Lydenburg who suggest ten years’ residence as a qualification.  Mr. Jan Meyer suggests that those who came early to the goldfields should memorialize separately, and he would support them.  Others say that only those who are naturalized should petition, and that if a few hundreds petitioned instead of 35,000, their reception would be different.  Well, we have had one petition here wherein all these conditions were complied with.  It was not signed by anyone who had not been here ten years, or who is not naturalized, or who could at all be suspected of being unfaithful, nor could any exception be taken to it on the ground of numbers, since it was signed by one man only, Mr. Justice Morice, and yet it was rejected.  Gentlemen, I am anxiously groping for the light; but what, in the face of this, am I to advise my people?

Mr. JAN DE BEER endeavoured to refute Messrs. Jeppe’s and Loveday’s statements, when they said a man could not become a full member until he was forty.  They were out of their reckoning, because a man did not live until he was sixteen.  He was out of the country.  In the eyes of the law he was a foreigner until he was sixteen. (Laughter.) The member adduced other similar arguments to refute those of Messrs. Jeppe and Loveday, causing much laughter.

Mr. LOVEDAY replied to the President, especially referring to his Honour’s statement that he (Mr. Loveday) was wrong when he said that a person would have to wait until he was forty before he could obtain the full rights.  He (Mr. Loveday) repeated and emphasized his statements of yesterday.

The CHAIRMAN said there was no doubt about it.  What Mr. Loveday said regarding the qualifications and how long a man would have to wait until he was qualified to become a full burgher was absolutely correct.  It could not be contradicted.  The law was clear on that point.  There was no doubt about it.