“Sanat-sujata said, ’Since the Supreme Soul cannot be penetrated by both the Vedas and the mind, it is for this that Soul itself is called mauna.  That from which both the Vedic syllable Om and this one (ordinary sounds) have arisen, that One, O king, is displayed as the Word.’

“Dhritarashtra said, ’Is he that knoweth both the Rig and the Yajus Vedas, is he that knoweth the Sama Veda, sullied by sins or not when he commiteth sins?’

“Sanat-sujata said, ’I tell thee truly that the man that hath not restrained his senses is not rescued from his sinful acts by either the Sama or the Rig, or the Yajus Veda.  The Vedas never rescue from sin the deceitful person living by deceit.  On the other hand, like newfledged birds forsaking their nest, the Vedas forsake such a person at the end.’

“Dhritarashtra said, ’O thou that hast restrained thy senses, if, indeed, the Vedas are not competent to rescue a person without the aid of virtue, whence then is this delusion of the Brahmanas that the Vedas are always destructive of sins?’

“Sanat-sujata said, ’O magnanimous one, this universe hath sprung from that Supreme Soul by the union of Conditions respecting name, form, and other attributes.  The Vedas also, pointing it out duly, declare the same, and inculcate that the Supreme Soul and the universe are different and not identical.  It is for attaining to that Supreme Soul that asceticism and sacrifices are ordained, and it is by these two that the man of learning earneth virtue.  Destroying sin by virtue, his soul is enlightened by knowledge.  The man of knowledge, by the aid of knowledge, attaineth to the Supreme Soul.  Otherwise, he that coveteth the four objects of human pursuit, taking with him all that he doth here, enjoyeth their fruits hereafter, and (as those fruits) are not everlasting cometh back to the region of action (when the enjoyment is over).  Indeed, the fruits of ascetic austerities performed in this world have to be enjoyed in the other world (as regards those persons who have not obtained the mastery of their souls).  As regards those Brahmanas employed in ascetic practices (who have the mastery of their souls), even these regions are capable of yielding fruits.’

“Dhritarashtra said, ’O Sanat-sujata, how can ascetic austerities which are all of the same kind, be sometimes successful and sometimes unsuccessful?  Tell us this in order that we may know it!’

“Sanat-sujata said, ’That asceticism which is not stained by (desire and other) faults is said to be capable of procuring emancipation, and is, therefore, successful, while the asceticism that is stained by vanity and want of true devotion is regarded unsuccessful.  All thy enquiries, O Kshatriya, touch the very root of asceticism.  It is by asceticism that they that are learned, know Brahman and win immortality!’

“Dhritarashtra said, ’I have listened to what thou hast said about asceticism unstained by faults, and by which I have succeeded in knowing an eternal mystery.  Tell me now, O Sanat-sujata, about asceticism that is stained by faults!’