“It was not till the autumn of 1886,” said Father Keller, “that any question arose of the Plan of Campaign here,[8] and it was by the tenants themselves that the determination was taken to adopt it.  My part has been that of a peace-maker throughout, and we should have had peace if Mr. Ponsonby would have listened to me; we should have had peace, and he would have received a reasonable rental for his property.  Instead of this, look at the law costs arising out of bankruptcy proceedings and sheriff’s sales and writs and processes, and the whole district thrown into disorder and confusion, and the industrious people now put out of their holdings, and forced into idleness.”

As to the recent evictions which had taken place, Father Keller said they had taken him as well as the people by surprise, and had thus led to greater agitation and excitement.  “But the unfortunate incident of the loss of Hanlon’s life,” he said, “would never have occurred had I been duly apprised of what was going on in the town.  I had come home into my house, having quieted the people, and left all in order, as I thought, when that charge of the police, for which there was no occasion, and which led to the killing of Hanlon, was ordered.  I made my way rapidly to the people, and when I appeared they were brought to patience and to good order with astonishing ease, despite all that had occurred.”

As to the present outlook, it was his opinion that Mr. Ponsonby, even with the Cork Defence Union behind him, could not hold out.  “The Land Corporation were taking over some parts of the estate, and putting Emergency men on them—­a set of desperate men, a kind of enfants perdus,” he said, “to work and manage the land;” but he did not believe the operation could be successfully carried out.  Meanwhile he confidently counted upon seeing “the present Tory Government give way, and go out, when it would become necessary for the landlords to do justice to the rack-rented people.  Pray understand,” said Father Keller, “that I do not say all landlords stand at all where Mr. Ponsonby has been put by his agent, for that is not the case; but the action of many landlords in the county Cork in sustaining Mr. Ponsonby, whose estate is and has been as badly rack-rented an estate as can be found, is, in my judgment, most unwise, and threatening to the peace and happiness of Ireland."[9]

I asked whether, in his opinion, it would be possible for the Ponsonby tenants to live and prosper here on this estate, could they become peasant proprietors of it under Lord Ashbourne’s Act, provided they increased in numbers, as in that event might be expected.  This he thought very doubtful so far as a few of the tenants are concerned.

“Would you seek a remedy, then,” I asked, “in emigration?”

“No, not in emigration,” he replied, “but in migration.”

I begged him to explain the difference.

“What I mean,” he said, “is, that the people should migrate, not out of Ireland, but from those parts of Ireland which cannot support them into parts of Ireland which can support them.  There is room in Meath, for example, for the people of many congested districts.”