a republic, is situated between two countries, Japan and Russia, both of which have monarchical governments, how can we resist their aggression once diplomatic conversations begin?  From this it is quite evident that there is nothing which can save China from destruction.  Therefore I say there is no hope of China becoming strong.

    Mr. Ko:  But why is it that there is no hope of China ever becoming
    rich?

Mr. Hu:  People may not believe that while France and America are rich China must remain poor.  Nevertheless, the reason why France and America are rich is that they were allowed to work out their own salvation without foreign intervention for many years, and that at the same time they were free from internal disturbances.  If any nation wishes to become rich, it must depend upon industries for its wealth.  Now, what industries most fear is disorder and civil war.  During the last two years order has been restored and many things have returned to their former state, but our industrial condition is the same as under the Manchu Dynasty.  Merchants who lost their capital during the troublous times and who are now poor have no way of retrieving their losses, while those who are rich are unwilling to invest their money in industrial undertakings, fearing that another civil war may break out at any moment, since they take the recent abortive second revolution as their warning.  In future, we shall have disquietude every few years; that is whenever the president is changed.  Then our industrial and commercial condition will be in a still worse condition.  If our industries are not developed, how can we expect to be strong?  Take Mexico as a warning.  There is very little difference between that country and China, which certainly cannot be compared with France and America.  Therefore I say there is no hope for China ever becoming rich.

    Mr. Ko:  Why is it that you say there is no hope for China having a
    Constitutional Government?

Mr. Hu:  A true republic must be conducted by many people possessing general education, political experience and a certain political morality.  Its president is invested with power by the people to manage the general affairs of the state.  Should the people desire to elect Mr. A their president to-day and Mr. B to-morrow, it does not make much difference; for the policy of the country may be changed together with the change of the president without there being any danger of disorder or chaos following such change.  We have a very different problem to solve in China.  The majority of our people do not know what the republic is, nor do they know anything about a Constitution nor have they any true sense of equality and freedom.  Having overthrown the Empire and established in its place a republic they believe that from now on they are subservient to no one, and they think they can do as they please.  Ambitious men hold that any person may be president, and if they