an assembly of certain individuals, chosen, by the people, is substituted in place of the inconvenient meeting of the people themselves.  If such a meeting of the people was actually to take place, would the slaves vote?  They would not.  Why then should they be represented?  He was also against such an indirect encouragement of the slave trade; observing that Congress, in their act relating to the change of the eighth article of Confederation, had been assigned to use the term “slaves,” and had substituted a description.

Mr. Madison reminded Mr. Patterson that his doctrine of representation, which was in its principle the genuine one, must for ever silence the pretensions of the small States to an equality of votes with the large ones.  They ought to vote in the same proportion in which their citizens would do if the people of all the States were collectively met.  He suggested, as a proper ground of compromise, that in the first branch the States should be represented according to their number of free inhabitants; and in the second, which has for one of its primary objects, the guardianship of property, according to the whole number, including slaves.

Mr. Butler urged warmly the justice and necessity of regarding wealth in the apportionment of representation.

Mr. King had always expected, that, as the Southern States are the richest, they would not league themselves with the Northern, unless some respect was paid to their superior wealth.  If the latter expect those preferential distinctions in commerce, and other advantages which they will derive from the connexion, they must not expect to receive them without allowing some advantages in return.  Eleven out of thirteen of the States had agreed to consider slaves in the apportionment of taxation; and taxation and representation ought to go together. pp. 1054-5-6.

Tuesday, July 10; 1787.

Mr. King remarked that the four Eastern States, having 800,000 souls, have one-third fewer representatives than the four Southern States, having not more than 700,000 souls, rating the blacks as five for three.  The Eastern people will advert to these circumstances, and be dissatisfied.  He believed them to be very desirous of uniting with their Southern brethren, but did not think it prudent to rely so far on that disposition, as to subject them to any gross inequality.  He was fully convinced that THE QUESTION CONCERNING A DIFFERENCE OF INTERESTS DID NOT LIE WHERE IT HAD HITHERTO BEEN DISCUSSED, BETWEEN THE GREAT AND SMALL STATES:  BUT BETWEEN THE SOUTHERN AND EASTERN. p. 1057.

Wednesday, July 11, 1787.

Mr. Butler and General Pinckney insisted that blacks be included in rule of representation equally with the whites; and for that purpose moved that the words “three-fifths” be struck out.

Mr. Gerry thought that three fifths of them was, to say the least, the full proportion that could be admitted.