There was a sudden change in Selingman’s expression, a glint of eagerness in his eyes.

“With Hebblethwaite!  You have begun well.  He is the man above all others of whose views we wish to feel absolutely certain.  We know that he is a strong man and a pacifist, but a pacifist to what extent?  That is what we wish to be clear about.  Now tell me, you spoke to him seriously?”

“Very seriously, indeed,” Norgate assented.  “The subject suggested itself naturally, and I contrived to get him to discuss the possibilities of a European war.  I posed rather as a pessimist, but he simply jeered at me.  He assured me that an earthquake was more probable.  I pressed him on the subject of the entente.  He spoke of it as a thing of romance and sentiment, having no place in any possible development of the international situation.  I put hypothetical cases of a European war before him, but he only scoffed at me.  On one point only was he absolutely and entirely firm—­under no circumstances whatever would the present Cabinet declare war upon anybody.  If the nation found itself face to face with a crisis, the Government would simply choose the most dignified and advantageous solution which embraced peace.  In short, there is one thing which you may count upon as absolutely certain.  If England goes to war at any time within the next four years, it will be under some other government.”

Selingman was vastly interested.  He had drawn very close to Norgate, his pudgy hands stretched out upon his knees.  He dropped his voice so that it was audible only a few feet away.

“Let me put an extreme case,” he suggested.  “Supposing Russia and Germany were at war, and France, as Russia’s ally, were compelled to mobilise.  It would not be a war of Germany’s provocation, but Germany, in self-defence, would be bound to attack France.  She might also be compelled by strategic considerations to invade Belgium.  What do you think your friend Hebblethwaite would say to that?”

“I am perfectly convinced,” Norgate replied, “that Hebblethwaite would work for peace at any price.  The members of our present Government are pacifists, every one of them, with the possible exception of the Secretary of the Admiralty.”

“Ah!” Mr. Selingman murmured.  “Mr. Spencer Wyatt!  He is the gentleman who clamours so hard and fights so well for his navy estimates.  Last time, though, not all his eloquence could prevail.  They were cut down almost a half, eh?”

“I believe that was so,” Norgate admitted.

“Mr. Spencer Wyatt, eh?” Selingman continued, his eyes fixed upon the ceiling.  “Well, well, one cannot wonder at his attitude.  It is not his role to pose as an economist.  He is responsible for the navy.  Naturally he wants a big navy.  I wonder what his influence in the Cabinet really is.”

“As to that,” Norgate observed, “I know no more than the man in the street.”

“Naturally,” Mr. Selingman agreed.  “I was thinking to myself.”